Veering off with Yzma Berrouet on music, art and collaborating
Posted on 31/12/25When I first listened to his music it felt like cold air in my lungs.
Yzma Berrouet, better known online as prblm, is a key figure in the underground rap scene. We're about the same age but couldn't be more apart. He started making music around 2016 and would found his own label, Novagang, in 2019. Now, more than 5 years later, he is at the dead center of a lively and boundary-pushing community—still far from being satisfied.
“My main goal is to take off in the art world—actually, genuinely, take off in the art world and be financially stable enough to do anything that I want, make all my ideas come to life,” he told me over Discord in late September.
So far his collaborations already reach around most of the globe; from his native Miami to the UK and Paris all the way to the People’s Republic of China, where his contemporary, and personal friend, jackzebra has been making waves with his own spin on internet-infused rap.
It seems wherever Yzma goes, there’s new projects popping up around him like wild flowers in spring. It all forms an exotic and impossible bouquet of red roses, water lilies and daisies growing from a single stem. Trying to keep track of it all can be overwhelming.
In anticipation of his teased sophomore album and a world tour starting in February, I had the chance to chat with Yzma. We talked about a flurry of topics, including his debut record, his artistic influences and trajectories—always plural!—going forward.
The following text is a write-up based on a two-hour chat. Every quoted section is from that transcript except if noted otherwise. Additionally, Yzma's sections are green.
The online underground hip-hop scene is a fascinating place full of the kindest people and the worst people all stuffed into a handful of online spaces. It's where a guy with a Homestuck profile picture might be a local tastemaker, where being on the right Minecraft server in 2018 can change your life.
This is the space that would define Novagang. Where the collective was first born out of and where it would find its footing, its most loyal fans.
The multi-media art collective / hip-hop label has been host to a rotating and fascinating pool of contributors over the years. Underground juggernauts such as 7ngelus, quinn, midwxst and xaviersobased have all been part of Novagang at some point but eventually left.
What draws people to this collective over others? A common thread among its members is that few of them limit themselves exclusively to music.
In this way Yzma is a great example of the people he surrounds himself with: The breadth of his creative output makes fencing off an area around him futile. It's true that he's best known for his music, but that would sell him short. He heads a label, directs and edits videos—like the digital horror short for label mate KAY NIVE$ below—designs graphics and clothing, and recently took up video game development.
He's dipped his toes into the bloody colosseum of the high art world: Compositions of his featured at CANNNONE SS24 and he assisted with the music for this iseder runway in September.
It's when you couple this with a frenzied social media presence (being online 24/7, unceremoniously deleting old posts as quick as making new ones, deactivating his account from time to time) that you might understand why people—his fans not excluded—tend to characterize him as mysterious and unpredictable; an assessment he disagrees with, but which continues to consume most discussions about him.
And yet, when I asked him to introduce himself at the start of our talk Yzma eventually lands at a simple self-definition: “Most of the time I would say the best word to describe me would be a contemporary artist / creative director.”
Many underground artists struggle with categorization, especially on social media, where chopping down a person into marketable terms is accepted as the way of the world. The vocabulary to describe them isn’t there yet, and maybe it never will be. Attempts at labelling this strand of internet art like “hyperpop” or “digicore” are outright rejected for the corporate efforts they are. In this world everyone is inventing something new. To put a name on it would be to declare its death.
On the other side of that lack of labels, lies a challenge for writers. How do you describe someone like that? Throughout our talk Yzma shares his frustration with coverage of him that leans on drawing connections between him and other people.
“I'm always associated with someone that I'm not even like close to. I never made a song with Nettspend. I have like three songs with xavier[sobased] and they're all from three, maybe four years ago,” he comments on a recent profile featured in The Fader. “I respect Jordan, shout out to him, but I didn't really understand what bro was talking about.”
That kind of association is one of the reasons Yzma stopped collaborating with new people. Reading through the few articles and forum threads that name him, you see him painted as this behind-the-scenes mastermind; a networker first and producer second, bringing together personalities bigger than himself and making beats.
While talking with him I get the feeling that he is tired of that image. He wants himself and his art to be taken more seriously on its own. He's quick to drop "producer" for "composer", hinting at a future where he isn't the beatmaker prblm anymore but instead a true multi-disciplinary.
In November of last year Yzma released Veire Dawf. While not his first album, it is the solo-debut for prblm, and with that comes a higher standard and a different approach: “The Devilmaycryy projects was just me having fun, and ironically I took longer on those projects. Not a lot of people know this, but I made Veire Dawf in one day. […] 98% of the project was my beats, my mixing and mastering and two percent were other people. The reason why it’s cohesive was [that] I was doing what I want to do instead of following a guideline. It was easier to experiment.”
The 8-track tape is a window into its creator’s mind and abilities at the exact time of creating it—it’s equal parts show-off as it is introspective and vulnerable. In subject matter it is about a now-past long-distance relationship with a girl from New York. She’s the one that put him onto Dean Blunt and his favourite poetry book, In Gorgeous Display. “It’s a book about this Nigerian guy. He’s gay and the whole book is about how he feels ashamed for being gay because everybody’s judging him. That book makes me cry and shit. [It’s] about perception, love, wanting to find love, being alone, wanting to experience true love and him being sad because of religious trauma.”
Veire Dawf, which is subtitled "Poems from the Heart" and described on its Bandcamp page as an "experimental slam poem project", is haunted by that long-distance relationship. But there is another story hiding in plain sight. “I was supposed to get features on it,” he tells me about sending the tape to peers. “They completely overlooked it, didn’t really understand it.”
He had to provide a visual to go along with it, to give Veire Dawf a fighting chance to be understood and appreciated for what it was. Yzma likens it to the cover of a book enticing readers to dig into the pages: “They have to see the hardcover for them to just truly understand what's going on. They don't understand the concept of just listening and understanding. Everybody has to be visual and that's why there's these rollouts, these music videos and photographs and press releases.”
He tells me how some of the same people he previously sent the project to have reached out to him after the music video dropped, telling him that they get it now.
I was wondering if the album’s title played a part in it flying over people’s heads and asked him about the story behind it: “I was trying to call it ‘Veered Off’ but spell it badly on purpose—as if a child was trying to write it. Picture a second grader [or] a first grader trying to write words in English based off of how it sounds. I honestly regret naming it that. People ask me what’s the meaning. […] It would have been better if it was just ‘Veered Off’, VO instead of VD, but I just misspelt it on purpose. Again, it looks really uncanny and I kinda hate the name but I guess I stuck with it after a time.”
He continues by telling me about the album cover: “Originally, I was gonna do a plane [on the cover of the album]. I decided not to because it looked too similar to Cardinal by Samba Jean-Baptiste. I was like fuck no, so I did a bird. At the time I lived in North Miami Beach and when you would drive down the main road on the highway you would always see birds engraved in the wall[s along the highway].”
“But yeah, the whole album is about this relationship I had with this girl from New York. I would always fly to see her, and we would go through a lot. We go through a lot in our long-distance relationship. That whole thing is about me going on a flight, looking down and that’s literally the story it’s supposed to be.”
At the time Yzma also suffered from a condition called musical anhedonia, making it impossible for him to enjoy music for half a year, until as late as last March. This leaves Veire Dawf as a strange orphan of an album, having no direct influences. But as a recently blind painter would still draw from memory so did Yzma echo his previous fascinations: The song “problem (spoken word)”, for instance, quotes Cooper B. Handy on “Even The Score”.
Yzma: “If you check the vinyl and you look at the lyrics, I put Cooper B. Handy [underneath]. 'Cause you know, I'm not really, like, on that plagiarism shit. Most of it was unintentional and it manifested in my head, but I made sure to say Cooper B. Handy's lyrics here.”
Another big influence on him, he told me, is the Liverpoolian singer Eve Libertine, a member of the legendary anarcho-punk group Crass. Sea is a favorite of his, a twenty-two minute album-song that he regularly listens to on car rides. “Some people would say there's a lot of dramatization going on in my music. […] She's basically enunciating the same way [as me.] If you just listen to the way she speaks, you're like ‘Oh, this does sound like—this makes perfect sense.’ It’s like improv. It’s improv expression with a lot of emotions.”
On the topic of enunciation, he shares with me how his time at a psychiatric hospital and witnessing catatonic schizophrenia and disfigured speaking ended up inspiring his own approach to vocal performances. Yzma has a complex relationship with his own high-functioning schizophrenia. On social media he recently posted that he has been on medication for 8 years, and that he feels it has blunted his emotional intelligence and other capabilities.
“I think it’s very obvious. I always thought it was very obvious. A lot of people call me crazy. I could recall many times people would just hit me up, DM me saying like ‘you're crazy, you're weird, get off your phone, you're on your phone all day.’ I usually multitask and I post a lot because I believe in free thought.”
He ends that post by saying "When I don't take them I feel more human just a little too vulnerable."
Like Eve Libertine, Yzma's vocal performances are usually at the extremes of the emotive spectrum. On Veire Dawf he's either disinterested or overly expressive. One song that showcases both of these styles and intentionally contrasts them is “呼吸呼吸呼吸 LETS✱GO✱IN2THE✱CAVE”.
Inspired by English rapper Triad God the song is a stand-out on the album. In the only vocal feature on the entire project jackzebra delivers a memorable performance. All he does is monotonously talk Mandarin while prblm is slowly gaining energy in a very emotive way. The track around them is composed of a simple circular melody. The two vocal tracks keep crossing and overlapping each other with no sense for collision. As the song progresses there are these moments where a brash synth breaks through for little pockets, like a short gap in the fabric of the cave.
As expected, this cross-continental collaboration is an exception to the entire album being made in one day. Yzma tells me it took a few weeks to finish the track. When he sent Jack the original demo, then called “Dragon’s Breath”, he instrcuted him to just talk over it. Actually he tells me his exact words were “'Let’s do something contemporary!'”
Yzma was first introduced to Jack by a common friend, German rapper 5star (fka. 5starlifee): “He put me onto Jack. […] He was like you gotta fuck with him. I met Jack around that time [and] started learning Mandarin. He was teaching me Mandarin and we spoke to each other; we still speak to each other in Mandarin. I’m about to start learning it again in writing.”
The collaboration on “Let’s Go Into The Cave” is the fruit of a genuine friendship and a recurring creative partnership. The two have previously released a joint EP in 2023 and appear on their respective projects repeatedly.
“We have a lot of songs together actually. That's something I realized. He's been featured on the Devilmaycryy album and then he was featured on this album I have privated, called Throwaway EP. And then that EP we made together, which was also spontaneous. [I] just sent them a bunch of beats and compiled them. I do wanna make a [new] album with him, me and him on vocals. That would be sick. jackzebra, that's my brother. I love him.”
Yzma tells me he’s excited to meet Jack again at his upcoming Passport Tour in February & March 2026, with one of the seven stops being in Shanghai. The other dates included Berlin, London, Paris, Warsaw, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur, with the potential for more at the time of us speaking.
That he’s able to pull strings all around the world hardly surprises me. For a key player in a scene that is known for gatekeeping, he is extremely open to being approached. He tells me how he would often collaborate with people who DMed him. (This interview, for example, came about through the same process.) He also has an extra phone for this purpose, the number of which he repeatedly shares in his Instagram stories.
After the physical release of Veire Dawf on CD and vinyl, Yzma posted a statement saying he would take considerable time off before working on a new album. A short while ago he uploaded a bunch of songs to Soundcloud. “I leaked a bunch of random stuff from multiple different projects, but “FOX LADY LAUNDRY [250 NE 167TH.]” and “OLD MAN” is definitely supposed to be on the album that I’m making.” That album being the prblm sophomore effort, EG0%NEGATIVE (Secular Non-secular Music).
Yzma’s habit of dropping random songs on Soundcloud and Bandcamp started when he was banned from online music distributor DistroKid—the service is a popular alternative for artists looking to self-release—around October 2024, leading to the deletion of the Novagang compilations H.T.N.G volume one and two.
Paradoxically, his vision for his next album (or the one after that) leads him away from isolation again, as he voices his wish to work together with session musicians, instrumentalists and singers other than himself. “Vocally I'm a bit challenged. I kinda wanna be on some like Dean Blunt shit and have people sing on my instrumentals. I wish I was connected to like Elias Rønnenfelt and like so many other people. I wish I could just get them on my albums and have like a Hype Williams moment where I help write the songs but I'm not the voice on the song 'cause I can't sing and that's what I want this new project to be about.”
Now that he can enjoy music again, he has a set of new inspirations fueling his efforts. Apart from the aforementioned, he takes time to shout out experimental NYC rock band YHWH Nailgun and the late English composer John Tavener. An eclectic bunch to say the least.
“I feel like I need to take Adderall or something to finish this kind of stuff 'cause this is stuff that I can't make by myself. I need to work with a unit of talented musicians to finish this album.”
But if I learnt anything it's that Yzma always has multiple things cooking at the same time. Those other projects—the other flowers in the ever-growing bouquet that is his portfolio—include the drum-less Coat of Arms with Novagang heavyweight Zephxrd co-produced by Woesum and Stacey—if those names don’t ring a bell I embedded a song they made with jackzebra below—and a tape together with UK-based pop duo Bass Victim.
Throughout our talk I couldn’t see Yzma. He didn’t turn on his camera. I didn’t ask him to. In a way I might be like the idol worshippers yet. I kind of like the disembodied voice telling me about sacred geometry and poetry and the struggle of not being seen by his peers as he would like them to.
Talking about his follow-up he seems dejected about repeating patterns: “I’ve shown a lot of people. They just overlook the idea. It’s the same thing that happened with Veire Dawf. […] This is a tale as old as time.”
At the end of the interview, maybe to land the conversation in more cheery waters, I asked Yzma what work he’s currently excited about. “I wanna get Imogen Heap’s vinyl. I’m excited to get all these hats made. I’m excited to play the new Silent Hill [f]. And I’m excited to go to Europe for the first time—I’m super excited. I’m excited for Lauren Duffus’ new project. I seen her in the studio with Arca. So I’m excited for that ‘cause Arca and Twigs [are] some of my favorite producers of all time.”
One final question.
Emilia: “Across all different media what would you say is your overarching goal?”
Yzma: “I definitely want to be a more visual person. […] ‘Cause everything that I envision is a vision, so it has to be visual. I really do think that’s my main thing, have people like ‘Whoa this is fucking beautiful; this is subversive!’ I wanna do that. I think I’m gonna be able to do that.”
When he shared his goal, I blurted out that I believed in him. Wherever that nebulous art world might be I think he will find it and leave his mark there.
Two days after our interview prblm unceremoniously cancelled the world tour—a cancellation that has since been deleted but not rescinded. He has additionally privated the music videos of Veire Dawf, deleted the leaks of EG0%NEGATIVE and told me that the project is currently on hold. While surprisingly open and vulnerable at times, he remains oblique.
That’s what dumbfounded me most about our interview and the following weeks. For two hours I had an open channel to this human being and after it closed I barely felt like I had gained any real understanding. Watching his online activities, you get the feeling that he is continually reinventing himself, draping off cocoon after cocoon. Tearing it from his flesh.
There really is no ultimate evolution to it, no plateau to arrive at from where you can comfortably create vulnerable art.
I appreciate prblm for putting everything out there.